My guest today is Author, Radio Host, Speaker, Worship Leader and Choir Director Donna Renay Patrick. She and I had a light hearted conversation about the various ways to recover when life does not turn out like we thought it would.
We shared our personal understanding of God based on our individual life experiences and how we interpret God’s word through our understanding. We talked about keeping a journal whether it’s a gratitude journal or a journal to help you sort your thoughts and feelings. There’s value in getting the things that are bouncing around in your head, all of the over whelming thoughts out and onto paper.
We discussed the importance of a strong identity, as well as the importance of grieving as we move through life.
An interesting portion of our conversation for me was when we touched on the 3 entry areas to our heart and mind: Ear gate, eye gate, & mouth gate. Theses significant entry points into our lives must be guarded.
We are the gate keepers and when we’re equipped to take our position we learn to cultivate peace in our lives. Not that we can keep from experiencing pain or trauma because ultimately these are opportunities to draw close to the Lord and not be self-sufficient but for the purpose of limiting the times we are confused and suffering.
Donna and I shared our thoughts on what it means to let go. Not letting go to nothing or anything, hoping something will happen/change. But rather letting go and submitting yourself to God’s care. I’ve discovered it’s the only safe place to be.
What does it mean to praise God in the middle of our pain and suffering? Donna and I found value in taking our focus off of ourselves and putting it on the One, Jesus Christ who can bring healing and restoration. The One who is with us in the places that no one else can reach.
Even our climate with its 4 seasons reflects something about the seasons in our individual lives. Side note: So you don’t get pulled out of the conversation wondering what I’m talking about….I describe the Fall leaves as God’s confetti…but for some reasons I said flowers. I meant to say leaves.
Join Donna and I as we explore the various things that are helpful when life does not happen like we had envisioned it would.
Live Loved and Thrive!
Related topics: https://alifeofthrive.com/2021/09/29/pain-2/
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BIO: Donna Renay Patrick is an award-winning author of two praise and worship-themed Devotionals; It’s In Your Praise, and At All Times. She also co-authored three anthologies; The Perfect 7, Stories of Roaring Faith (Vol 4), and Be Refreshed. She has served in music ministry for over 35 years in the capacities of musician, choir director, and worship leader. Her passion is training and development in worship ministry, and why it is important for the 21st Century church to keep God-pleasing worship priority – not only on Sunday morning, but in our daily lives.
As a regular presenter at the Bay Area Sunday School and Church Workers Convention Castro Valley, California, she facilitates workshops in various facets of Christian Education. Some of the topics she frequently teaches on are Church Growth Through The Ministry of Worship; The Call To Worship Revisited; and Improving the Working Relationship Between The Pulpit and The Music Ministry. On the invitation of the African American Lectionary, she wrote a commentary to coincide with the September 2013 Worship & Arts Sunday celebration.
Donna earned a Bachelor of Science in History and Secondary Education from Bishop College in
Dallas, Texas. In May of 2011 she received her Master of Arts in Christian Education from
Dallas Baptist University. She received her personal trainer certification from the International
Sports Sciences Association, and completed her paralegal education at the former Southeastern
Paralegal Institute. She taught in the paralegal program at The University of North Texas for 4 years.
Donna currently serves on the music staff of the New Mt. Gilead Baptist Church in Lancaster, Texas. She is host of The Donna Patrick Show, heard globally each Monday afternoon, where the focus is on life-transforming praise and worship beyond the music. She serves on the Executive Board of The Northeastern District Baptist Association, and is a certified instructor with the National Baptist Convention, U.S.A., Inc.
TRANSCRIPT:
[00:00:00.490] – Donna
You know what Sherrie? You just said seasons change. Seasons don’t just change on the calendar. And in nature, seasons change in our Christian experience. They change in how we love God and how we serve Him. Like this past success. There is a time to weep. It’s a season and there is a time to laugh in this passage and Ecclesiastes, it says to me that if we’re hurting, we won’t always hurt. If I’m in pain, I won’t always be in pain. I will laugh again. Even if I have to learn to laugh again. There is a season and seasons do change. That’s what this passage says to me.
[00:00:54.670] – Sherrie
When life, as you know it is flipped upside down, we struggle to make sense of it all. Why would a good God allow this to happen? Hi, I’m Sherrie Pilkington, your host of Finding God in Our Pain. In early 2018, the deepest questions of my life erupted when I unexpectedly lost my husband of 32 years. Since then, I’ve searched the heart of God for what he has to say about pain and suffering. In this podcast, we’ll discover how God enters into our pain, shepherds us through our darkest Valley, and out into the green pastures. Once again, I’ll bring you first hand stories from women who will allow us into their authentic struggle, along with professional advice from experts, counselors and others who can speak to what it looks like to navigate pain. Join me as we discover God’s answers to the deepest crowd of our shattered heart.
[00:01:44.470] – Sherrie
My guest today is author, radio host, speaker, worship leader, and choir director Donna Renee Patrick. She and I had a light hearted conversation about the various ways to recover when life does not turn out like we thought it would. We shared our personal understanding of God based on our individual experiences and how we interpret God’s word through our understanding. We talked about keeping a Journal, whether it’s a gratitude Journal or one where you get all of that jumble or overwhelming thoughts that are bouncing around in your head and overwhelming you, and you get it out onto paper and out of your head.
[00:02:17.650] – Sherrie
I know that’s helpful for me. And we talked about the importance of a strong identity as well as the importance of grieving. Something Donna brought up, and I’ve just recently become aware of this, it’s not new to the Christian community, I don’t think, but the terminology for me is new. We talked about these three entry areas that give access to our heart and mind. The ear gate, the eye gate, and the mouth gate. These are significant entry points into our lives, and they need to be guarded.
[00:02:43.930] – Sherrie
And I would venture to say that any of our five senses could be viewed as gateways to our mind and to our heart. But that’s my personal thoughts on the remaining three senses touch, smell, taste. I really wish I had dug into that deeper to explore the power of these gateways in our life. I’ll have to find someone to have that conversation with in the future because they are important. Not that they stop us from experiencing pain or trauma. But I think about the times, for instance, when I’m responsible for guarding those areas.
[00:03:14.710] – Sherrie
And if I pick up on that skill myself, it might limit the times that I find myself confused and suffering. Donna and I shared our thoughts on what it means to let go and not to nothing or anything, hoping something will happen, but rather letting go and submitting yourself to God’s care. This is my personal opinion, but it is also my experience. It’s the only place that we’re safe is in His care. We discussed what it means to praise God in the middle of our pain and suffering, the value of taking our focus off of ourselves and putting it on the one, Jesus Christ, who can bring healing and restoration. The one who’s with us in the places that no one else can reach, a pain that no one else can change.
[00:04:01.330] – Sherrie
Even our climate with its four seasons reflects something about the seasons in our individual lives. And so we dug around into that a little bit. And a side note for you so that you don’t get lost in the conversation or pulled out of the conversation, and you think to yourself, wait, what did she just say? I was describing the fall leaves as God’s confetti, but for some reason I said flowers. They’re beautiful and colorful. Light flowers. Leaves are. But it’s leaves. I was talking about leaves of a tree that swirl in the air and flutter to the ground.
[00:04:31.810] – Sherrie
So I just want to help you with that. Join Donna and I as we explore the various things that are helpful when life does not happen like we had envisioned it would. Thank you, Donna, for your interest in sharing your heart, for who the God of the Holy Bible is when what we thought we have doesn’t become our reality.
[00:04:49.810] – Donna
Sherrie, thank you for having me. I’m so excited to be here.
[00:04:52.690] – Sherrie
Based on our biblical world view, why do you think it is that we always prefer the easy life? Could it be that God has put the Garden of Eden in our DNA? And we instinctively know we were created for something different, something more? Not certainly not this. What do you think about that?
[00:05:09.550] – Donna
Sherrie, I think it’s a part of human nature for us to want everything to be this way. All of our ducks in a row. I made these plans. I went to school, I got married, I had a family. I’ve accomplished this and that and the other. And I think it’s a matter of human nature. We just expect things to go the way. And then when things don’t go the way we planned, we start beating up on ourselves. What did I do wrong? What could I have done better and some of us say, what’s wrong with me?
[00:05:45.430] – Donna
And there’s nothing wrong with you. It’s just that God had another avenue and we like to be comfortable. Sherry, I think that’s just human nature. It’s in our human DNA. We don’t like to be uncomfortable in any arena. Things are supposed to go this way, and when they don’t, we just kind of get out of here.
[00:06:08.650] – Sherrie
That reminds me a lot of when you’re raising children, they’re breaking away into this independence and you have to make this deposit in their lives. When I heard you saying, what did I do? What can I do better? So I heard I and then me. What did I do wrong?
[00:06:26.230] – Donna
Exactly.
[00:06:27.190] – Sherrie
So it becomes this thing of where we’re always trying to strike out on our independence of God. To be independent of God. That’s always a struggle, right? So that makes sense.
[00:06:39.430] – Donna
Sherrie, it does make sense, because for whatever the reason, I don’t think it’s intentional to leave God out. And it’s not that we don’t know him or we’re not in relationship with him. We just take our skills, our abilities, and we go on sometimes without saying, Lord, what is your plan with this? We track out on our own without asking God, what is your plan? How do you want me to do this? You’ve given me this ability. You’ve given me these children. You’ve given me whatever the case might be.
[00:07:18.370] – Donna
You’ve given me this business. You’ve given me this position, whatever it might be. Lord, what’s your plan?
[00:07:25.030] – Sherrie
That resonates with me because when I was 18 and I got kicked out of the house, I had walked with the Lord strong from twelve to 18, read the Bible three or four times through. But when I got kicked out of the house, I became more independent, like I was thinking, okay, now I have to do this on my own. Now I have to make things happen. So I definitely resonate with what you’re saying. It’s not that I was intentional. The Lord had been so good to me and gotten me through so many crazy hectic times in my family.
[00:07:54.970] – Sherrie
But as soon as I was set free, I walked away from him. I do not know why. Now he continually pursued me, but I did walk away from him.
[00:08:02.350] – Donna
Isn’t that a blessing? God never took his hands off of you.
[00:08:07.270] – Sherrie
Not once. And when I say I walked away from him, not intentionally in my mind, but the choices I was making, the things that I was doing was not walking with him. It was not his best for me. Absolutely. So when we come to these places of loss, trauma. And now we’re looking at a heap of Ashes, a heap of dust. What is the next thing we can do?
[00:08:31.870] – Donna
Can I share with you a quick story? Sure. This has been a long time ago now, Sherry, but there are three of us. I have two sisters and both of them are going to be with the Lord now. But my oldest sister, Jackie, was killed in a burglary attempt years ago, and that was the first time that death had come to our immediate family. I’ll share something that my mother said when my mother was told what happened. Of course she fell apart. Of course she did. But when she gathered herself, the first words out of her mouth were, I wish it had been me.
[00:09:14.950] – Donna
When she further gathered herself later on, she told me she said she was praying and crying out to God. I’m sure asking God why God, what is really going on here? She said. God told her, praise me and all of that pain, all of that loss. God told her you praised me, and that helped to get her moving again. I remember when I was laid off in corporate America. Part of me was glad. And then I said, God, what do I do now? Well, when the next job wasn’t coming and I didn’t know what was going on, I’m in trouble financially, and that’s when the I came in.
[00:10:00.250] – Donna
It got to be too much about me. I was so into my problem that I wasn’t going to God. I was praying, but it was still I God, I need God. I want God. How come God? You know, I’m in this mess, but I wasn’t really letting him lead is what I’m saying. And I had to get to the point where I’ll let God take over. I had to say, Jesus, take the wheel. I’m not doing well here, and I’m not able to handle this. God, take it, take this. Jesus, take the wheel.
[00:10:39.490] – Donna
And that is when I began to relax and just get out of my head is what I’m saying. I had to get out of my head. I was in my head too much.
[00:10:48.670] – Sherrie
And further to that point, God’s always asking us to take our eyes off our immediate situation, our reality of life, and asking us to put our focus on Him.
[00:11:01.330] – Donna
Absolutely.
[00:11:02.590] – Sherrie
And my personal story, too. After losing my husband unexpectedly, I struggled with the Lord asking him questions out of pain, and I never felt like he was mad at me. He always received my questions, but it wasn’t until I laid down myself defined rights of having everything answered and having everything add up. That for me is when the healing began. Now I wouldn’t rush people’s process of getting to submission because I think that’s important to tell me about the struggle with God when we’re struggling with God.
[00:11:35.110] – Sherrie
Do you think that offends God?
[00:11:37.090] – Donna
I can answer that two ways. On the one hand, I think it does offend Him when we don’t trust Him. On the other hand, God loves us. Sherrie, on the other hand, he loves us so much and he made us. He knows what’s in here. And so on the one hand, yes, I think he is offended on some level. But more than that, God loves us, and His mercy is so real. His mercy is so real. And so we don’t have to feel God is out to get me or God. What did I do to you? God will pick us up just like you pick up your babies and carry them wherever God picks us up. I just believe it because He’s done it for me. He’s carried me with love. He’s loved me through so much.
[00:12:36.730] – Sherrie
I’m the same way, I feel God has been extravagantly patient with me. I have never picked up on his frustration with me, although I’m sure he just waits patiently for me to get myself straight.
[00:12:48.910] – Donna
Isn’t that wonderful? God is much more patient with us than we are.
[00:12:54.610] – Sherrie
And His Grace and His mercy. What does it say? His mercies are new every morning. And I need those mercies every day, every day.
[00:13:04.190] – Donna
Every day. We can count on that.
[00:13:06.710] – Sherrie
That’s a beautiful thing, too.
[00:13:08.390] – Donna
We can rely on God’s Word more than we rely on our own feelings. Feelings are fickle. But God’s Word never changes. And if we can’t stand on anything else, we can stand on God’s Word
[00:13:26.270] – Sherrie
Amen.
[00:13:26.810] – Donna
Because His Word will never come back void. His Word will never crumble under us.
[00:13:34.430] – Sherrie
And that’s that solid rock, too. You can use that for your home base. You can be off doing something you shouldn’t be doing and you can come back. The door is always open to God. You can come and go as you please, but we are the ones who suffer the consequences when we don’t stay with him. We can come back with a bunch of consequences strapped to our back. And he’s like, okay, we’re going to have to fold this into the story, but I’m a great Redeemer, so let’s move forward.
[00:13:57.950] – Donna
Absolutely. And I love you anyway, right? I love you still.
[00:14:03.290] – Sherrie
We gonna pick up like you never even left, and we don’t fold all the consequences. You showed back up with Ecclesiastes three, one through five. I’m going to read that for my listeners. “To everything, there is a season, a time for every purpose under heaven, a time to be born and a time to die. A time to plant and a time to pluck what is planted, a time to kill and a time to heal. A time to break down and a time to build up. A time to weep and a time to laugh. A time to mourn and a time to dance. A time to cast away stones and a time to gather stones, a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing.” What does that mean to you? With regard to who God is as seasons change as beginnings and endings happen in our lives.
[00:14:48.530] – Donna
You know what, Sherrie? You just said. Seasons change. Seasons don’t just change on the calendar and in nature. Seasons change in our Christian experience. They change in how we love God and how we serve him like this passage says. There is a time to weep. It’s a season, and there is a time to laugh. In this passage in Ecclesiastes, it says to me that if we’re hurting, we won’t always hurt. If I’m in pain, I won’t always be in pain. I will laugh again, even if I have to learn to laugh again. There is a season, and seasons do change. That’s what this passage says to me.
[00:15:41.870] – Sherrie
When you bring up the seasons in our life, I wonder too, if you think about it winter’s cold and harsh. And then you have spring that brings the hope of new life. And then you have summer where it’s joyful. And then you have the fall. There’s a decline there. But in the fall, when the leaves are falling, I live on three acres and so sometimes you can just see a massive swirl of colored flowers coming to the ground. And I always call that God’s confetti. So, even as things are declining, there’s still that beauty of who God is. How do you feel about that winter, spring, summer, fall, as far as in a particular phase of life.
[00:16:21.230] – Donna
You know what I think, Sherrie? Sometimes we have to find the beauty. Even in the winter, when it’s cold and dark and the ice is thick. We’ve got to find the beauty in that. Sometimes it’s harder to find than others. But knowing that God is our Father, knowing that the sun will shine again, light and darkness are the same to God. There’s still a light that shines in the darkness. We just have to find it.
[00:16:58.970] – Sherrie
That’s a good point, because I think that it comes down to a discipline, even in the winters of life. And that’s to continually return to Heaven’s value system. God’s heart for you. There’s beauty in that, even in the cold and the harsh.
[00:17:18.230] – Donna
We may have to look harder for it at times, but it’s there. It’s there. And we got to remember as long as God is there, as long as you know, God is my father, God is my keeper. He never sleeps. God has me. He’s got me. Even in that dark space. He got me.
[00:17:41.810] – Sherrie
I spoke with a young woman whose husband was murdered in a home invasion in the wee hours of the morning. And through that traumatic situation, she had come to a point in her healing process, where she had challenged her own followers to find something good in their worst day. So then she decided she should take that challenge herself. And she did. She found something that God preserved in the midst of all that happened in her living room and the loss of her husband. And so she was thankful for that one thing. To her it was a way of God saying “I was there.” So maybe a recalling of the things that are good in life or a gratitude journal, something along those lines might help bring beauty, highlight beauty and the pain.
[00:18:25.070] – Donna
And sometimes it helps to put your feelings on paper. Sometimes we can cry out to God not only in prayer, but sometimes we’re crying out. I know I do. Sometimes I cry out to God in my journal, and it helps me to kind of get it out. It helps me to get it out. A couple of Sundays ago at church, my pastor said something so key. He said, “Don’t look at what you see. Focus on what you’ve seen. God has done it. You’ve seen God do it before. So focus on that. Focus on what you’ve seen God do before. He’ll do it again.”
[00:19:09.590] – Sherrie
He does give us these memorial stones, if you will, of past goodness, because I think one of the things that Satan wants to torture us with is the same thing that he got Eve in the garden with. Is God was holding something good from you? Did he really say that? That’s not for you, that’s for somebody else. I believe that recalling those good things and not looking at God through one individual lens, like I could look at God through the lens of my husband’s death and try to define him by that.
[00:19:39.770] – Donna
Sure.
[00:19:40.310] – Sherrie
But that’s not a fair picture of who he is and who he has been.
[00:19:44.510] – Donna
And, Sherrie, I’ve never walked in your shoes in that regard. But I can imagine that those thirty-two years that you had together, God showed you his goodness, his Grace, the relationship that he gave the both of you. When I lost my mother a few years ago, she still walks with me. She’s still with me because my mother’s footprints are all over my life. And I serve God today because of her, because of the example that she set. But her footprints are all over my life. And so I have so much recall so much positive recall something she taught me, something she said to me, some example that she said something that she did that just encourages me. So she’s gone in body. But she’s still right here. She’s still in my heart.
[00:20:43.430] – Sherrie
She has made a good deposit. And you prove that over and over again in your life, in your own life. Backing up just a little bit you mentioned about journaling and getting it out of your head. I believe that’s key, because you keep it in your head, it gets bigger and bigger and bigger, and your fears rise, and now you’re dealing with anxiety and stress, and the body will try to deal with that. And that comes out in some, it can become at an addictions, things you do you wouldn’t normally do
[00:21:11.330] – Donna
Absolutely.
[00:21:12.110] – Sherrie
That’s very cathartic to me. Was that what you were saying?
[00:21:15.830] – Donna
Absolutely. Stress can manifest itself in the body. We’ve got to get that out some kind of way, some kind of way, if it’s prayer, if it’s journaling, if it’s working out, if it’s walking, some activity that you enjoy. If it’s going, having coffee with friends, whatever the case might be, renewing old relationships. It matters. We’ve got to get that out. Writing does it a lot for me. A lot of me comes out when I write. I have a gratitude journal. When I get too much into me, when I get too much into me, I write in my gratitude journal because there’s always something to be grateful for. There’s always a blessing. We’re blessed right now, right this moment because we can speak. We can hold a thought in our heads. We can see each other. We can experience a blue sky, a quiet lake. Those are all blessings that helps us get out of our heads and really focus on God, even in nature, because he gives us so much to enjoy.
[00:22:28.670] – Sherrie
When we look at the Bible verse, one of the other Bible verses that I chose was second Corinthians. 517: “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come. The old has gone. The new is here.” I think that’s the perfect example of newness. And that is our personal Salvation, our personal relationship with Christ. So how does that mimic life like, how does heaven mimic life with beginnings and endings?
[00:22:57.530] – Donna
Sherrie, I believe that we really can have Heaven on Earth. We can have that joy. And remember, happiness and joy are two different things. Happiness depends on what happens, but joy that the Bible says the joy of the Lord is our strength. And what we have to understand is joy is not my joy. And it’s not my strength. But to answer your question when we do receive Christ, we are a new creation, and we have to remember that when we go through hard, difficult days, we don’t have to look back. We don’t have to dwell there. We have to surrender. Sherrie, I love classic Westerns. And what happens when the Sheriff or the Marshal catches up with the outlaws? He said, hands up, drop the guns and their hands go up. Surrender in the physical sense, literally, literally surrender. But in the spiritual sense, it’s the same concept, but it’s on the inside. God, I’m letting go of this. I’m not going to hold on to this anymore. I’m not going to hold on to this. I’m letting go. I’m giving it all to you.
[00:24:15.530] – Sherrie
I talked to the woman who had left the human trafficking, the sex trafficking industry. When God won her over, she went to take her life, and God met her there. But when he won her over, she fully embraced his love for her. When I was talking to her, I was really struck by the fact that she did not recognize her old self. She answered my questions. It’s not like she tried to dodge the questions or anything, but her identity was solid in who God said she was. That was beautiful to me.
[00:24:41.750] – Donna
She could no longer believe the lies that Satan was telling her, because now she knows who she is.
[00:24:50.090] – Sherrie
Right. So when her past came after her, whatever situation, how Satan’s constantly trying to throw stuff at you, bring stuff up from your family life when you were a kid, but she would have none of that. She’s like what you say did happen, but that’s not who I am anymore.
[00:25:03.710] – Donna
Wow. And that’s powerful when you know who you are in God, nobody can convince you otherwise.
[00:25:09.410] – Sherrie
What do you think is key for that? Having a strong identity in Christ? Because I know as a child, I was pointed to God. I had an aunt who actually was more of an example of God. And I do credit her for my Salvation. But I was pointed to God many times. But there came a time in my life when I cried out to him and then he was real to me. So I did know the word. I could recite Bible passages.
[00:25:35.150] – Donna
I can share my own experience with that, Sherrie. I grew up in a Christian home, too. I grew up in the Church. I had opportunities as a kid to give my life to Jesus. Eventually I did. But I didn’t really understand what my Salvation meant until I went off to college. I came up with a very strong foundation, but what happened when I went off to college is that I became exposed to some other teachers, some other preachers who built on top of the foundation. I didn’t rip up the foundation, I built on top of it. That’s what I call your spiritual house. That’s what I call building onto your spiritual house. So, I had accepted Christ. But I didn’t really understand my Salvation and what that meant to my life until I was older. I was grown and once I really learned what my salvation meant and what it means to walk by faith, what it really means to walk with God on a day to day basis.
[00:26:40.310] – Sherrie
So it sounds like maybe you are like me in the sense that my faith was tested. I didn’t realize there were really any gaps or holes until it was tested. And then I had this discussion with God. Or that’s when this intimate conversation happens with God. So maybe it’s both knowledge both experiential combination of things.
[00:27:05.090] – Donna
I think it’s both. But we’ve got to get beyond knowledge is good. Knowledge is good, but applied knowledge is better.
[00:27:16.850] – Sherrie
Who once said that the farthest distance is from the head to the heart? I can’t remember who said that, but it’s true because it doesn’t help just to have head knowledge. And it doesn’t help just to have heart knowledge or heart emotions or feelings, but the emotions and the feelings and the knowledge have to at some point become one.
[00:27:32.810] – Donna
Knowledge is a good thing, but applied knowledge. And I think that’s where you’re going with that. Applied knowledge at some point here and here and even here and here, it all has to come together at some point. Because knowledge is great, but if you don’t apply that knowledge, the Bible talks about Salvation. We are heirs with God and joint heirs with Christ. But do I believe that? Do I walk that out? Your guests, you mentioned a moment ago who came out of the sex trafficking. She learned who she was in Christ and so that did it for her. That did it for her. The knowledge and experience came together for her.
[00:28:21.470] – Sherrie
It did come together for her in a very powerful life transforming way. And just to back up a little bit for our listeners. When you were talking about head heart, you also pointed to mouth and ears. When you said here and here, we’re making a point of what you say, possibly what you see, think and feel.
[00:28:39.590] – Donna
Absolutely. Sometimes, Sherrie, we have to be careful. We have to guard our ear gate. We have to guard our ear gate. Guard our eye gate. And what I mean by that is, we can’t listen to everybody as well meaning as they may be. People mean well, and they love us, and they want us to be okay. They mean well, but sometimes we can’t listen to everything that hits our ear gate, and we certainly have to speak – start speaking differently. Let that transformation reach our tongues as well. We can’t be God’s children and be saying, Well, I can’t do this. I can’t do that. I’ll never be this. Well, my mother told me I’ll never be so and so. Yes, I will, because God said I will. So that’s what I was talking about here and here. That’s what I was talking about.
[00:29:34.550] – Sherrie
Ears and mouth, ear gate, mouth gate. Which reminds me, we are the gatekeepers. We are the gatekeepers of our lives. We get to approve what does and doesn’t come into our life, what we hear, what we see, what we put in front of us, what we give our time and attention to. When it comes to the endings before the beginning, the new beginning that takes place, what’s the importance of taking the time to grieve what breaks your heart?
[00:30:02.690] – Donna
Oh, wow. This goes back to what we were saying about getting it out. Grieving is normal. It’s normal. God created us in his image. But he also created us in humanity. And as humans, we have feelings. When we hurt, we cry. And if somebody cuts me, I’ll bleed. If somebody says or does something hurtful, I might retaliate with some words. When we lose something or somebody, it hurts. It hurts. And we’re going to cry. And we’re going to need periods of healing. We’re going to need periods of restoration. I remember, as I mentioned earlier, when my sister fell victim to a burglary attempt on her home and this person that I had grown up with all my life in the same house, same parents, same bedroom. All of a sudden, she’s gone. I couldn’t say goodbye. I couldn’t save her. I couldn’t help her. I just got a phone call one day and she’s gone. This was something we had never experienced before in our immediate family. But I cried. I screamed. I felt kind of guilty because while there was nothing I could have done about it, Sherry, somewhere in my mind, I’m thinking I could have helped her if I had been there, maybe I could have helped her. I was at work when all this was going on, and I felt kind of guilty because I thought maybe I could have helped her. Maybe I could have done something, but I had to come to a place of letting go. And I’m trying to be strong for my mom. I’m trying to be strong for her. So, I didn’t do my own grieving until later, and I had to get really, really depressed before I really dealt with my own grief. But grieving is normal. Crying is normal and we have to process. It’s a process
[00:32:21.650] – Sherrie
You bring up regrets, and I want to touch on that. But let me back up just a moment because what I hear you saying is that tears and grieving are necessary, because anytime that we are separated from that which we love, or that which we have expectations attached to. I do believe there should be a grieving process.
[00:32:39.950] – Donna
Absolutely. If you don’t. And grieving is healthy, and everybody might not agree with that. But I believe grieving is healthy. You got to go through that process because if you leave it all in, it’s just going to fester. It’s going to manifest itself in your health. If not your physical health, your mental health, perhaps. If you let that grief fester, we have to go through that process. We have to.
[00:33:08.330] – Sherrie
I especially love that God gave us tears as an expression, as a way to move stress or anxiety out of the body. But, and I cannot think of the Bible verse right now to save my life, it says he catches our tears in a bottle and that they will not waste away. And I cannot help but wonder what He’s going to do with those tears. Do you think you’ll wash the residue of this life off of us as we transition into heaven?
[00:33:34.130] – Donna
It’s a good thought. I don’t know either what he does with them, but I’m glad that he sees them. I’m glad God doesn’t miss anything. He doesn’t miss anything. Nothing is wasted, no experience, no matter how painful, it’s not wasted. God can use it to take us to another level. We don’t see it right then because we’re in too much pain. We don’t see right then how God is going to use it. And I think that’s where trust comes in. Speaking of your mouthgate, God, I know you’re still good God. I know you love me, God. I know you got me. God, I know you haven’t left me. That’s a good time to open up your mouth and just remind yourself that God’s got me. His word says I’m here. His word says I’m a new creature in Christ. His word says he will never leave me.
[00:34:38.570] – Sherrie
And the mouth gate giving praise and giving worship even in the time of suffering and trauma in our lives. God spoke everything into creation. So I believe speaking our life into a certain way, or at least redirecting our focus. Talk to me about worship in the midst of heartbreaking, heart wrenching pain.
[00:34:58.430] – Donna
You know what, Sherrie? What I’ve learned is that worship takes courage. Let me say that first it takes courage to worship God in your pain. But what worship will do is going to take your focus off of your pain and put it on the one who can heal the pain. That’s not to say you’re in denial. You’re not in denial. Your pain is very real. Your hurt is very real. So, you’re not in denial. You just know God well enough. And you know how much he loves you. And you know that even though you’re in pain right now, even though you’re in a dark, painful place right now, God is still there. He sees you. And what worship does is take your mind off of where you are, off the pain and puts it on to him. Worship changes your focus. It changes your perspective, right?
[00:36:03.710] – Sherrie
And I believe after hearing what you’re saying, it reminds me that that’s heaven on Earth, being able to engage God in the midst of your pain and suffering, being able to find that place of rest somewhere to drape your heart across. I tell God often I don’t have a plan B. So, even though if I’m deeply hurt, I don’t understand you, no one else has the words of life. No one else represents truth. I have nowhere else to go except here at your feet. But it’s such a beautiful place to be.
[00:36:38.210] – Donna
Girl, you said something. I have nowhere else to go. I have nowhere else to go. Sherry, look back to Second Chronicles, Chapter 20, Chronicles, Chapter 20 around verse twelve. I believe it is. King Jehoshaphat said, Lord, we don’t know what to do, but our eyes are on you. And that says it all right there. Our eyes are on you.
[00:37:08.030] – Sherrie
That’s when those black fonted words on crinkly pages become real. A lot of the things that I thought I knew about God became fact and truth about God in my personal experience. So, you can’t have just the word. And you can’t have just experiences. You need both in order to really grasp even more of who God is. Not that we ever get the full picture of who he is, but it’s a taste and a shadow, and it’s beautiful.
[00:37:36.950] – Donna
You’re absolutely right. We need both.
[00:37:39.590] – Sherrie
Let’s get back to regrets. How do we make peace with regrets? I know I had some with my husband. I actually thought that I could have gotten him to the hospital or I felt like I should be with him, but I wasn’t with him. He was by himself. And I had all these regrets when, in fact, like you said earlier, my hands were tied. The day had come for my husband to pass. There was nothing I could do. How do you make peace with regrets?
[00:38:05.810] – Donna
First of all, gather yourself and really begin to cry out to God and say, Lord, God, help me with this, God, you’re the only one who can help me get past it. You’re the only one who can do it. Friends, family, they love me. They mean well, but God, you’re the only one, and I love them. I love them. But, God, this is me and you. I would just believe in our Christian walk, Sherry, there are just some things that nobody can help us walk through. There are just some things that is nobody but you and God.
[00:38:50.990] – Sherrie
One of the things I cannot remember who said it to me at the time, but one of the things that really settled my regrets is they told me, you’re not God. I had to submit myself to God’s sovereignty on life and death. God was just asking me to trust Him, that he was sovereign. And also I had to remember, too. Death to us is not death to God, if we’re a child of God, it’s a transition. And I have to remember that we say death, but he does not see it the same way. Not that he’s out of touch with the fact that we pass from here to there, but it’s a different value system in that regard. We just have to wait. A minute ago, you said something about people can’t really help us. You’re right. No one could really help me because no one could bring my husband back. And that’s really where the pain resonates. But what made the difference for me was God’s presence. And so I’ve come to understand that just your presence with someone who’s suffering sometimes is enough. Just your presence to be there.
[00:39:48.230] – Donna
Oh, absolutely. Because sometimes we don’t know what to say. Sometimes we don’t know what to say to make you feel better. But just being there and sometimes saying nothing. And I’ve been there too. They didn’t say anything, but they were there to hold my hand or whatever. Their presence. It’s not always the words. Sometimes it is just their presence.
[00:40:16.490] – Sherrie
I completely agree when I think about guilt and shame that could be associated with an ending to a certain phase of someone’s life or a title or responsibility. Some of that can include guilt and shame. Do you have any particular thoughts? Biblical thoughts? How do we deal with guilt and shame that may be held over from what we’ve experienced?
[00:40:40.250] – Donna
Well, I think, first of all, recognize that neither of those are from God. Jesus came that we might have life and have it more abundantly. Recognize that guilt and shame are not from God. He received me because he loves me. We have to take it back to the love of God. And that mercy, because guilt and shame are not of God. God said, I still love you. I forgive you. Walk in your forgiveness. And I think a lot of times, Sherry, we don’t want to walk in our forgiveness. We’d rather wallow in it. We would rather say, “Oh, look what I did. I’ll never get past this.” Yes, you will. Yes, you will. You’ll get past it. Allow God to carry you past it.
[00:41:32.210] – Sherrie
I do think there’s a disconnect, though, in God forgiving us and us being able to forgive ourselves. Ultimately, I believe it’s that we keep the focus on ourselves again, the I, the me, the whatever. But I do believe that’s a realistic struggle. Any thoughts on that of turning our attention from ourselves again and back to God, who is capable of carrying that forgiving it, bearing it, never recalling it?
[00:41:58.250] – Donna
I think that’s a good word. I think there is a disconnect there. Sometimes, Sherry, sometimes is a struggle to forgive ourselves. That’s something that a friend of mine had to help me with. She just ministered to me in such a beautiful way. She said, “Donna, God doesn’t beat up on you. Why are you beating up on yourself? He loves you. He loves you. Hold on to that love.” But see, it’s the voices in our heads. It’s those voices that keep playing over and over, and some of the voices we’ve heard them for so long, and they kind of become second nature to us. But we have to stop listening to those voices and hear the voice of God.
[00:42:45.770] – Sherrie
And maybe that’s the struggle, too, with regard to our spirit man being awakened by our Salvation, our acceptance of Christ. And it’s struggling still with the soul and what the soul knows of this world. And so the spirit is trying to override the soul. But we still have to deal with the thinking and the patterns and the knowledge that we’ve had prior to knowing God.
[00:43:07.790] – Donna
The word of God says, flesh and spirit are always in conflict. The word tells us that flesh and spirit are always in conflict on a daily basis. So it’s a struggle to have our spirit override our flesh.
[00:43:24.230] – Sherrie
Someone said, Mercy is permission to be human. God’s mercy is permission to be human. And I love that because that is a real salve to my heart, because we’re not going to be perfect. We’re not going to get it right. As a matter of fact, my definition of a maturing Christian is one who turns around faster when they do something wrong. They turn from their ways and go back to the Lord and confess and get – remove that block between you and the Lord and put it out on the table and say, I did this, daddy, I am sorry, and I come back to you and repentance the heart of repentance because I know that offended you, and that is not where I want to be.
[00:44:02.450] – Donna
And see, that’s a good way to silence the voice of the enemy by saying, “Lord, I did it. I confess I’m coming to you with it.” And that way the enemy cannot use it against you anymore .
[00:44:16.850] – Sherrie
Because we know God, if we’re guilty of something, we have someone to go to to take that guilt to, that it can be washed and cleaned away from our lives. So, look at the beauty of unloading, our natural humanistic brokenness. And we have someone to take that and give it away to get rid of it. Why do we wait so long? I do not know.
[00:44:39.530] – Donna
We’ve held on to it for such a long time. It’s become second nature. It goes back to knowing and having that assurance that this is not from God. So, I need to let go of it.
[00:44:50.870] – Sherrie
That reminds me of a time I did a paper, a term paper or whatever, on child abuse. It talked about various examples where they had removed children from the home. But the children always wanted to return. They did not want to leave their home, their mom or their dad, even though they were being abused there. So the familiarity of their surroundings is what they did not want to be pulled out from. So it kind of drives home your point that we stay where it’s familiar, and we feel that we not so much that we’re comfortable, maybe, but that we know what to expect.
[00:45:23.630] – Sherrie
We’ve been conditioned for this. But yet God is calling us into who He’s created us to be.
[00:45:29.510] – Donna
Sometimes familiarity can become a stronghold because that’s a very good example. A child or it could be an adult in an abusive situation. And this has happened for so long where they’re holding on to it. They become comfortable there. This is what I know. This is what I’m familiar with. This is always the way it’s going to be. It’s hard to break out of that. Sometimes it’s a struggle to get out of that mindset. You said the right word, familiarity. That’s the word.
[00:46:01.430] – Sherrie
It has to be broken down to an ending, sometimes before people will make a change or move out of that. And then even then get some distance on it before they realize, wow, that was not where I needed to be. I need to be over here doing this. You need to grieve what you lost, even if it was familiarity, that was not beneficial for your life. But you need to grieve what’s being left behind and try to turn your head to look what God has for you leading forward.
[00:46:29.090] – Donna
And that’s hope.
[00:46:29.990] – Sherrie
That’s what God gives us, too, is hope. Is that not a beautiful thing? Hope.
[00:46:34.850] – Donna
It’s a beautiful thing. A hopeless person is – we got to get them out. We got to show them there is hope. You’re not hopeless. Your life is not hopeless you are not hopeless because God is a God of hope. And Jesus came to give you hope. So, it’s still there. Hope is still there.
[00:46:58.430] – Sherrie
Hope is still there. His name is Jesus.
[00:47:01.250] – Donna
Yeah, absolutely.
[00:47:02.450] – Sherrie
Is there anything I have not asked you today that you want to share with my listeners? Anything that you feel like you want to say before we close?
[00:47:10.130] – Donna
You know, we’ve talked a lot about guilt and shame today. I want to share just seven things real quick that God showed me that I had been dealing with personally, and I just want to share it might help somebody. One is anxiety and worry. And Philippians, chapter four, verse six, talks to us about that fear, scarcity mindset, limiting beliefs, not accepting fully who God created us to be, hating yourself, and living beneath the greatness that God has put in you. And Scripture speaks to all of those. God had to deal with me on all of those things because I was living with all seven of those. The anxiety, the scarcity mindset, the fear, the limiting beliefs, not accepting who God made me to be, not accepting my purpose, bullying myself. I didn’t need an outside bully. I was the bully. I was bullying myself. And then living beneath where God had me to be. Scripture speaks to all of that. They were strongholds. There were seven strongholds that I’ve had to say I’m done no more. No more. God has more for me than this. So, I just want to share those.
[00:48:37.550] – Sherrie
And I appreciate that. They’re very powerful. All those that you listed hating yourself pops out to me, but they’re all, in my opinion, Satan’s currency. We’re not working in God’s value system. We’re speaking Satan’s language, like we’re helping him along. Like you’re saying, I believe myself. Okay, I could definitely relate to that. So we’re doing Satan’s work for him.
[00:48:58.070] – Donna
There you go. And he loves it. And he loves it because he’s holding us down. And he doesn’t want us to get to where God wants us to be. Satan doesn’t want that.
[00:49:09.290] – Sherrie
Somebody asked me the other day, “Doesn’t Satan know he’s not going to win?” They’re talking about the end times and the way things are going. But his goal now or his focus, I would imagine, is to destroy us from ever knowing who God is or what God has for us, or walking in all that God has for us. Because like you said, we can have heaven on Earth. I’m not saying it’s perfect. I’m not saying it’s painless, but the beauty, the joy, the peace, that joy that surpasses natural understanding.
[00:49:37.070] – Donna
Yes, we can have that. And, you know, Sherrie, life will never be perfect, but they will never be flawless. We will never be perfect people. But we serve a perfect God. And as long as we walk with him, but we got to walk with him. We got to walk with him. And God will unfold some stuff I just believe it. He’ll unfold some things as to walk with
[00:50:02.870] – Sherrie
Because he’s always willing to reveal himself. He’s not playing games. It’s just the slowing down there’s, my challenge slowing down. Even when I spend my quiet time with him, I find myself running ahead, racing the head, wandering off, coming back. Trying to walk his pace, not ahead of him, not behind him, but with him in step. That’s a huge challenge. I used to say my biggest challenge for my walk with God was waiting on him. So, now it’s like walking his pace, which I guess is still the same thing as waiting on him, but like walking in his pace. Donna, you’ve been an absolute delight. My heart is encouraged today, and I know that my listeners will be too. Thank you, my sweet friend.
[00:50:39.410] – Donna
Sherrie, thank you so much for having me. I appreciate you. I’ve had a great time today. Thanks for having me.
[00:50:45.350] – Sherrie
Thank you for your time and for sharing this experience with my guests. I hope you have found encouragement for today and a deeper revelation of God’s heart in the midst of pain and suffering. We’d love to have you as a subscriber to finding God in our pain so that you can be connected with all my guests as they share their personal experiences and professional knowledge about pain and suffering. And because this podcast is a division of the website, A Life of Thrive, for more information on the various ways you can connect with us, please visit the website. Alifeofthrive.Com.
[00:51:15.050] – Sherrie
I look forward to sharing more transparent stories from the hearts of women who intimate immediately know what it means to have their world flipped upside down, their authentic struggle to make sense of it, and what recovery and healing looks like. ‘Till then, sweet woman, remember, you are not alone and that God speaks the most beautiful things in the dark.
